Tuesday, October 14, 2014

Good trash talk - more about Bylaw 280

         
10/12, 3:22pm  Facebook message

             Jim Routledge
 did you hear that thing i talked to you about before i left - its coming up for a decision soon










   
            



Ian Gartshore 
The request to be able to stop the exportation of waste?










           
            



Jim Routledge 
Yes, the Minister announced she will have a decision soon










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 By the way, I was told that the local landfill is open 7 days a week. Someone told you it wasn't, right?










           
            
Jim Routledge 
 It is closed on long weekends










           
            



Ian Gartshore
  Should be interesting to see what the Minister decides. This could affect shipping metro van's trash to other jurisdictions, no? 




Ah, long weekends.




 For incineration, I mean.










           
            



Jim Routledge 
1) yes, 2) it could or MRFS










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 What's MRFS?










           
            



Jim Routledge 
sorting, Material Recovery something somethng










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 I wonder if Metro Van has thought this through?










           
            



Jim Routledge 
Unamous at the board level, even Vancouver directors support this










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 Me don't understand... They don't want to see their garbage exported while putting out an RFP for WTE options that would require exporting their garbage!










           
            



Jim Routledge 
They don't want to see their garbage exported - period










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 Not even to Nanaimo?? Or are we talking about the city of Vancouver vs. Metro Vancouver?










           
            



Jim Routledge 
The point is to stop it going unsorted and uninspected to Oregon - all the efforts to insitute diversion, bans and prohibitions is being undermined










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 Yep.










           
            



Jim Routledge 
Not only that, the cost of the system that is in place is increasingly being shifted to citizens






             Not only that - who is getting any jobs out of the Oregon bound stuff?










       
            



Ian Gartshore
 A few benefit at the cost of the many. I'm seeing this theme being played out over and over again.










                       




            Jim Routledge 
i will be honest with you Ian - there is a scary side to being in favour of this - a risk but I feel its one worth taking










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 The risk?










           
            


Jim Routledge 
yes, the risk is that it does open the door to incineration.  so do I trust the system and put my faith in the people running it or vote against it and risk the whole last 20 years of gains










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 So the ban on export of waste is only for unsorted stuff, right? So why does this open the door to incineration? Because then there's more trash to deal with?










           
            



Jim Routledge 
its a complex issue Ian - hard to explain.  I have been working on this for a while.  I am a business kinda guy and my university degree taught me to be wary of things like "monopoly", "expropriation" & "Government controls" yet I find myself leaning towards that in the name of saving the planet, jobs and fairness to taxpayers










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 I get that. Isn't it fun (not!) when our simple solutions don't work very well in the more complex world of reality??










           
            



Jim Routledge 
to answer your question - it opens the door to incineration because without Bylaw 280 there is no control for any purpose going forward - incineration, local landfill volumes or MRfs










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 It appears to me that we are slowly reducing the power of governments while simultaneously increasing the power of large corporations.




I see.










           
            



Jim Routledge 
this Bylaw 280 will do the exact opposite - more government




its the application of 280 if it passes, if mary says "yes" that is the biggest challenge - it could be done right










      
            



Ian Gartshore
 We don't need incinerators. I am trying to understand this situation from Metro Van's perspective.










           
            



Jim Routledge
 if you let your trash leave the province, no jobs, no NRE, no diversion targets - are you sure that’s what you want?










           
           
             



Ian Gartshore
 I don't think waste resources should be shipped off-shore any more than should raw logs.




 Nope.




I am trying to understand Metro Van's perspective.










           
            



Jim Routledge 
it is a tricky one - I think there is too much too lose to let private industry handle this - its a public thing, like education, water, ferries










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 I think that private industry could make wiser decisions if we did a full cost accounting -one that includes the usually externalized costs of hauling distances, burning, burying, etc.




In other words, including the costs of pollution, GHG emissions, having to dig up more resources, etc.










           
            



Jim Routledge 
who stands to benefit if Bylaw 280 is defeated, if Mary says "No"?










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 Haulers




U.S. dumps










           
            



Jim Routledge 
yes and the jobs here that are at risk - NRE, our landfill, our recycle industry










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 Yep.




And one more sector would continue to benefit: industries that generate a lot of waste, especially the food sector. They throw away tons of edible foods every year.










           
            



Jim Routledge 
good point Ian-its a slippery slope




,we just start getting serious buy in on recycle and then take the pressure off - how crazy would that be










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 Chad of our local Green Store said that he has difficulty getting some of these discards because they're rather throw it away then have to sell it to him!




 I know the RDN solid waste folk are concerned about lots materials.




That should read "lost materials."










           
            



Jim Routledge 
most every regional district has sent letters of support for 280 to the minister










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 I was just told one of their staff that the MMBC funds are not subsidizing or lowering the tipping fees but are used for subsidizing their utility bills.




I see.




Do you get to play a role in this decision, Jim?










           
            



Jim Routledge 
I am nobody Ian - so no - not yet at least 










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 OK. I think those funds should be used to boost local manufacturing utilizing the waste stream.










           
            



Jim Routledge 
i would love to play a role if its endorsed - it it goes ahead - yes, yes, yes - you got the idea now










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 How about using some of the Duke Point area for a waste recovery center and associated manufacturing?










           
            



Jim Routledge 
i love Ian Gartshore










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 Thanks! But I'm not running! 










           
            



Jim Routledge 
true - but i am 










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 I ran for the Zero Waste conference.




True!










           
            



Jim Routledge 
just wish i had the time to go thru all that with enough people to make a difference










           
            



Ian Gartshore
 Yep! Just a month to go before e-day!




 Do you have some folk who will help you get the message out?










           
            



Jim Routledge 
i need help










           

            



Jim Routledge
 Good morning Ian - could I please have your permission to share the conversation we had above about Bylaw 280.  You asked some good questions.










            Today
           
            



Ian Gartshore 
Hi Jim, Sure. Thank you for asking
          Cheers,
          Ian

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